Post Info TOPIC: Apophatic theology in Donne
David Parry

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Apophatic theology in Donne
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Hi. I'm an MPhil student in Renaissance Literature at Cambridge and am working on my MPhil thesis (due August 31st) on models of selfhood in Donne. In general terms I'm looking at the two models suggested by the etymologies of 'individual' and 'person' and seeing whether they can be reconciled - individuum suggesting an autonomous self-reflexive agent and persona suggesting a more performative and socially constructed identity).


I was wondering if much work has been done on apophatic (aka 'negative' theology in Donne). If so, I would appreciate pointers.


I'm also wondering whether it is likely that Donne was influenced by Francois de Sales - I've found some passages in the Treatise on the Love of God (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/desales/love.html) which talk about putting down roots into God (as in 'A Hymne to Christ, at the Authors last going into Germany') and some great passages on the meaning of kissing as the intermingling of souls, for instance:



Yet we do not utter our discourse nor the thoughts which proceed from the spiritual portion of our soul, which we call reason, and by which we are distinguished from beasts, except by words, and consequently by help of the mouth; insomuch that to pour out our soul and open out our heart is nothing else but to speak. [...] And thus one mouth is applied to another in kissing to testify that we would desire to pour out one soul into the other, to unite them reciprocally in a perfect union.


(http://www.ccel.org/ccel/desales/love.ii.ix.html


Could Donne have got these points from de Sales, or are they commonplaces he could have got from anywhere?


Thanks,


David.



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David Parry

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Sorry, I meant to include references.


The clearest uses of apophatic theology in Donne are in ‘Upon the Translation of the Psalms’, which contains the paradoxical line "I would but blesse thy Name, not name thee now" and ‘Negative Love’, which parodies the apophatic tradition by applying it incongrously to a human beloved.


I am wondering whether the narcissism some have found in Donne's love poetry, especially in relation to Donne's dwelling on the feeling of love rather than the particular beloved, as well as some of the hyperbole of the patronage poems, might derive from a displaced apophaticism which characterises a finite beloved object as ineffable and thus fails to describe the object of love as he/she/it truly is.


I hope I am being comprehensible and not too off the wall here. I would appreciate any guidance forthcoming.



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greg kneidel

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this may be too late for your thesis, but Keynes's bibliography takes note of several books of mysticism from Donne's library.

Also, Roger Tisdale dedicated his _The Lawyer's Philosophy: or , Law brough to Light. Poetized in a Divine Rhapsodie or Contemplative Poem_ (1622) to Donne. This is a pretty interesting poem--you might even call it a work of positive theology.

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Julia Guernsey-Shaw

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Hi David:


I don't know if you're still checking in here, but if so, I'd really like to see your thesis; I'm trying to think through issues regarding self-construction in Donne, though I suspect my direction is different from  yours in many respects.


Best,


Julia Guernsey-Shaw



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Theresa Kenney

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Hello, David,

You posted this question a long time ago, but I was wondering if you had looked at St. Bernard's homilies on the Song of Songs. We know Donne read Bernard and quoted him; the mystical kiss of the Spouse is definitely there in Bernard.



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tom hester

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Look at "The Poetry of Meditation" by Louis Martz, if you've not yet.



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