Post Info TOPIC: "John Donne, 17-century Poet of Pop"
Colleen Gillis

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"John Donne, 17-century Poet of Pop"
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1604129,00.html#


Is there anbody on this forum who plans to attend the performance listed in the link above? It would be great to hear a direct response from someone who plans to attend. 



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Mike Elliston

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RE: "John Donne, 17-century Poet of Pop"
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Yes, I'm going to St. Paul's to see what all the fuss is about.  I'll post a fuller response on Friday. I interviewed the current Dean last year for the new play I'm writing about Donne and he mentioned there was some kind event coming up.  My play,"Reinvention", is just completed!  Just in time to hear about this rival project.


If you're interested, I've published the first draft on http://www.reinvention.co.uk/Script.htm which contains a whole host of other stuff regarding the project.


Regards,


Mike



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Colleen Gillis

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Mike,


Thank you for your post.  I will definately check out your draft.  I hope you enjoy your evening tomorrow night.  I'm envious but I look forward to hearing all about it.   If it turns out to be a bust (which would suprise me) be assured in the knowledge that it is for a good cause.


Cheers,


Colleen 



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Mike Elliston

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Hi Colleen,


 


As promised, here is my feedback from last night’s “John  Donne Celebration” at St. Paul’s Cathedral.


 


The first shock for me was when I arrived to meet my friend on the steps of the cathedral – and found a crowd of 2000 people snaking around the statute of Victoria.  A motley crew it was, too: well cut blazers, cardigans and pearls, students, overseas visitors – seemingly from every continent, which seemed appropriate.


 


St. Paul's. I have to say, looked resplendent – fresh and clean now that the scaffolding has just been removed within and without.  It really is a majestic testament – Wren’s own iconic masterpiece.


 


Inside, we took our seats in the nave – not being fortunate enough, or cash rich enough, to join the great and the good in the seating under the dome.  If I craned my neck, I could just make out the hair of the performers.


 


Then, the Dean ascended the pulpit and addressed us in his soft tones.  Thank goodness the PA system is brilliant – it was all crystal clear.  We were invited by him not to applaud between the poems and songs – which made me immediately think that this was going to be a more reverential and sedate evening than I had imagined.  Not Cole Porter, at all.  The Dean concluded with “Hymn To God The Father” in that Church of England way – but yes, it seemed fitting. Simply to hear these words sifting though the cathedral was enough for me.


 


Then, the entertainment began!  “The Canonisation” – beautifully read by the ensemble actors, both men and women (but alas, no Alan Rickman as we had been promised. J K Rowling is probably more lucrative than giving one’s time up for Donne).  This was followed by a really haunting melody, “Ah, Dear Heart”, set to music by Orlando Gibbons.  The acoustics in the cathedral really lend themselves to choral works.  As the last notes drifted heavenwards towards the Whispering Gallery, the bells of St. Paul’s tolled eight times.  It was all very appropriate.


 


And then, it all goes wrong for me.  Nothing against the performers and their ability to deliver lines of poetry which they executed with consummate skill.  But for me, there was very little passion.  The poems in isolation without any framing are simply words – beautiful words – but meaning and irony seems lost on me in this context.  One poem in particular made me think back to Ilona Bell’s paper at this year’s conference; Sappho to Philaenis – two women divided the poem and spoke and answered each other.  There was even some movement and much casting of lascivious (but polite) looks between them.  After all, it was in front of the Dean.  Strangely enough, the audience became the most animated at this point – craning necks upwards, sidewards, to see what our two Sapphic dykes were up to.  It never fails – the allure of girl-on-girl action.  Come to think of it – only men we craning their necks.


 


But I wondered, what would Ilona make of this when they say:


 


            “O cure this loving madness, and restore


Me to me; thee, my half, my all, my more.”


 


If I recall Ilona’s  paper correctly, in it she suggests that one of the speakers is Donne, the other, Anne.  That interpretation seems credible to me: two women seems a rather cruder, more obvious choice.


 


Not all the music was of the period, which surprised me.  Two contemporary English composers had set several songs to music – one I found to be a bit too discordant, (composed by Nick Price, b.1976).  It was technically brilliant, I’m sure, and performed with great skill.  But left me cold.


 


We were allowed to applaud at the end of the first half, but alas, there was no pay bar, so we all sat, patiently.  The second half mirrored that of the first: same format with more songs.  The highlight for me was when an actor delivered the famous passage beginning,


 


“The Bell doth toll for him that thinkes it doth;”


 


I did want to applaud after “It tolls for thee” but knew I wasn’t allowed to.


 


On the music front, Jonathan Holmes, who had skilfully put the evening together, writes in the programme:


 


            “The gender-bending of the writing [The Bait] is not incidental: the settings are all for soprano, and all the evidence points to performances by women – indeed, all copybook transcriptions of Donne in music in existence were made by women.  Donne’s audience, it would seem, was predominantly female.”


 


I had never considered that fully before and wondered if you agree?


 


My big question to myself is, given that I understand Donne never intended his poems to be published, but was happy to have them circulate amongst small private groups of friends, isn’t there a contradiction that he – if I read Holmes correctly –  was happy to have his songs set to music for indiscriminate performance.  As Holmes also says:


 


            “…no English poet of the period received such widespread attention from composers and musicians as did Donne…the public Donne was not at all a simplified version of his poetical self; a dilution through music.”


 


Did he sanction the music?  Or did he have no choice –  were they borrowed with or without his permission by Gibbons, Hilton et al?


 


All in all, it was a very pleasant evening.  To hear the word “viceroy” for some reason gives me much pleasure when spoken with such Shakespearian authority from the mouth of Harriet Walter.  I don’t know why.


But I also don’t know what it is I expect from hearing Donne performed in this way. There were many people sagaciously nodding heads in approval as famous lines popped up like screaming mandrakes – is it simply the art of recognition?  Or do I expect too much from Donne – and especially in St. Paul’s?


 


I hope this gives you some idea of what it was like – albeit a very subjective viewpoint.  If anybody wants to see the full rundown of the event, I’ll scan it onto my website.  I can’t guarantee the quality.


 


All credit to Jonathan Holmes.  2000 people!  In the words of Kylie Minogue – “I should be so lucky”!


 


 


 



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Mike Elliston

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A more recent article on the event which I spotted today


http://www.thelondonline.co.uk/theline/article.php?articleID=394


 



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Colleen Gillis

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Mike,


Thank you for your quick response.  What a turnout!  2,000 no less.  I looked into flights too late.  If I had landed a cheap ticket, I would have been there too.     


After hearing your remarks on the event, I'm inclined to think that St Paul's was probably not the most suitable setting for all the material presented.  I sense that the setting imposed too much pressure on the "entertainment" aspect of the event.  It sounds a bit polite and staid     where it should have been "alive and kicking."   Maybe an underground rave would have been a better choice or a club house for a secret society?  Something to think about for your play   Do you intend for it to be performed in a theater?


Sapho to Philaenis disappoints me.  I can't believe Holmes could be so obvious, as you suggest, as to use two women players as his voices.  I don't think the use of two women is a crude choice because the language already dennotes it.  In my opinion, the depth of the language is completely lost on Holmes.  Why didn't he play on some of the possible ambiguity of the poem for the sake of a performance?  At least let them be twins (mirror images) or possibly one a transvestite (female roles, in ancient Greece, were performed by males). 


I've not read Ilona Bell's paper but I would agree with her suggestion that Sapho's voice could be a stand-in for Donne speaking to More.  There is certainly room for many possibilities.  I've always understood the poem to have multiple voices.  Woman to woman, man to woman, self to self, etc.  An orgy of players, if you will.  I only give Holmes credit for its inclusion in the program. 


As for Holme's suggestion that Donne's audience was predominantly female..couldn't tell you.  Let's just say that it wouldn't suprise me if true. 


All criticism aside, I still wish I had been there.


If you would, please scan the program on your site.  I'll look it up.  I've read about half of your script.  I'll try to finish it next week and get back to you on your site.


Colleen


 



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Mike Elliston

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RE: "John Donne, 17-century Poet of Pop"
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Colleen - I'm having a problem with getting good image quality of the text of the programme from last week's St. Paul's event:  if you email me at mike-elliston@reinvention.co.uk with your address I've got a spare copy of the programme so will mail you an original - a kind of vicarious souvenir.


Regards - Mike


 



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J. Cora

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RE: "John Donne, 17-century Poet of Pop"
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Is there any prospect of having all those lyrics recorded in a CD in one of the major Early Music series? I'd be delighted to acquire a copy to join my one and only CD with Donne's poems set to lute.


Cheers.


J. Cora.



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Mark Allinson

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RE: "John Donne, 17-century Poet of Pop"
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Did he sanction the music?  Or did he have no choice –  were they borrowed with or without his permission by Gibbons, Hilton et al?

Mike, I think that the following poem holds an answer to your question.


The triple Foole


    I am two fools, I know,
    For loving, and for saying so
        In whining poetry ;
But where's that wise man, that would not be I,
        If she would not deny ?
Then as th' earth's inward narrow crooked lanes
    Do purge sea water's fretful salt away,
I thought, if I could draw my pains
    Through rhyme's vexation, I should them allay.
Grief brought to numbers cannot be so fierce,
For he tames it, that fetters it in verse.

    But when I have done so,
    Some man, his art and voice to show,
        Doth set and sing my pain ;
And, by delighting many, frees again
        Grief, which verse did restrain.
To love and grief tribute of verse belongs,
    But not of such as pleases when 'tis read.
Both are increasèd by such songs,
    For both their triumphs so are published,
And I, which was two fools, do so grow three.
Who are a little wise, the best fools be.


=========

The triumph of love/grief and art, delights many when heard set to music. It is a type of "publication" of his poetry which Donne can disown, and yet still enjoy. And there is a touch of wisdom in allowing such foolishness, since his work is now published without the ignominy he associates with publication.



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c.g.

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RE: "John Donne, 17-century Poet of Pop"
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my name's colleen, too!

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